Goetia/Ceremonial magick

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Post by NoOneMournstheWicked on 2011-06-19, 22:43

I've been doing a lot of research lately about Goetic rituals and ceremonial magick, which many would consider within 'the dark side' of spells. Basically, Goetia involves summoning daemons to do your bidding. Daemons here don't have the same negative connotation they do today. It just means spirits, but in ancient days all spirits were known as daemons. Such magick is said to be very powerful but also risky because the daemon can play tricks on you or even cause harm if they sense you are not experienced or knowledgeable. This is one reason why I've been looking everywhere for a Goetic practitioner to perform rituals for other people, but it seems the general consensus is that it is best to perform one's own spellwork. The only site I could find in this type of magick is this one, but she seems way sketchy to me. She charges hundreds for some spells, and to be honest she seems kind of judgmental because she selects which emails she wants to answer. If it seems you are too foolish for her to bother with, she ignores completely. She also has a youtube channel called oipteaapdoce. All her videos are of her walking across a layer of bricks or something---so weird! I will put the link up so you all can check it out. Overall, I find this a bit sketchy but it's worth taking a look at:

www.goetia.ca

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Post by NoOneMournstheWicked on 2011-06-19, 22:44

Oh I forgot to mention that her name is not disclosed so I could not refer to her by name.

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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-19, 22:47

Had a bad experience with this...my advice is to proceed with caution if at all. Just my humble opinion. This was not the caster though, but same magic.
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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-19, 22:52

BYW--Sounds like Tina may know more about this than me. My experience was not good--an understatement, but possibly unique to me.
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Post by NoOneMournstheWicked on 2011-06-19, 23:07

Maggie--could you clarify what you mean by 'not good'? As in it didn't work, or something bad happened?

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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 00:34

I had what I thought was a friend trying to direct me, but ending up leading me down a wrong path. What I found with me is demons tend to turn a person's thinking darker. It happened with me. I found myself thinking so differently than anything I am about or want to be about, almost like I had evil based thinking. This is in direct contrast to who I am as a person and it was only two months for me. It didn't only happen to me. Seems the ones that I know went this route and did away with it are doing fine, back to themselves, but the ones that grew deeper into it are not anything like what they once were. Most of them are for lack of a better term azzh----, mean, throwing curses left and right, paranoid, egotisical as heck and the demon's trick them into thinking so differently, not for others, just me- me -me and dark and drab.

They surely are not happy, didn't get their wishes, but now because of their evil thinking assume incorrectly that everyone is evil. Not being melodramatic, but I think some should go for exorcisms, but I will just politely keep my distance from them.
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Post by tina71 on 2011-06-20, 00:37

I have been reading some about Goetia, not an expert, the same way I went to reading about santeria, voodoo, palo mayombe ...

Although there are some twisted people using the goetia demons to scam and scare others, the basics of ceremonial magick is about self improvement and spiritual communication, most mediocre practitioners skip this part all together, they find chaos and will get anyone they can.

Only advanced practitioners can do spells for others and the real ones do not want to get involved in that, they will help you find your path but will not offer the spell.

Now rituals involve a lot of hard work and complicated ceremonials, after reading about them, I can not believe they can be done for few hundred dollars.

You can read this article :

http://true-color-of-mind.blogspot.com/2011/03/power-of-mind-and-solomons-ceremonial.html

The Goetian magick aka 'The lesser Key of the Solomon',is an
ancient psycho-spiritual development that has been misunderstood and
maligned.Practitioners of Solomon's magick are not satanist who make
"Pact with the Devil".They are spiritual explorers in the
deep caverns of the mind.Carrying with them the lamp of wisdom and armed
with the power of God.

The Lesser Key of the Solomon,in which cataloged and described seventy
two genies/Jinn/Demons of the Arabian Nights,where king Solomon had
imprisoned in a brass vessel.Once this magick involved making the
spirits to manifest physically,which now the technique had lost in
time.While the modern writers suppress the main element and they are not
aware of it.Later the famous or the infamous modern day British black
magician Aleister Crowley edited the lost scriptures,and introduced it
as 'Goetia'.

http://www.originalfalcon.com/excerpts.php?from=illustrated_goetia

Another interesting article about using the ceremonial magic for your own development.

After reading some articles and talking to some people, I came to the conclusion that looking for a ceremonial practitioner who will do an spell for you is going to get you in trouble because most of the people who will offer these service are not illuminated enough, they do not do ceremonials properly and can not find balance, therefore they use others to feed from their energies and of course money.

This is my understanding about this practice, I am not sure it is the path for me, but I like to find more about it as it becomes available to me.
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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 00:42

I won't disagree with what you are saying Tina, but one demon and that it was was called upon and it was just a horrible experience. I would not make a pact, but I do know for a fact that I started behaving differently as did others, but this was the darker side of it, obviously. I can only share my experiences and the people who one were friend's who grew deeper into it.
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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 00:47

http://www.satansheaven.com/goetia_1.htm
This is what I am referring to and the demon's name is on there. Never, again for me!!!!!,Scout's honest, pinky swear, the whole bit. lol & true
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Post by tina71 on 2011-06-20, 03:34

My situation is different, i am unable to feel, sense or communicate with the hundred spirits i have acquired (many of them i know are empty) and the spells other casters have done for me are not helpful at all, i still believe in magic and spirits and have arrived to the conclusion that i have to find a system that works for me, a way to open and release chaotic energies and spirits around which affect me and the people i love.
Yaya told me about my guides and spirits and how i need to reach to them before i get anything from the outside, i have been researching and looking for a system which works for me, since all the wiccan ways and previous attempts have failed, i will try some basic ceremonial magic to connect to my own spirits and guides, it is hard work, but eventually it may help me. I am not planning to get into the demons, more looking for enlightenment.
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Post by joanna on 2011-06-20, 03:37

tina, your patience is admirable.

through all my readings, i came across the 'myth' of the necronomicon. it was really dark times for me and i even wrote out the sygils that i wanted to use. myth or not, there was something there that was calling me but it was of a dark nature. when i even thought about it, i felt dark. i am glad that i didn't go ahead with it, whether or not it is myth...i didn't like the energy.
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Post by joanna on 2011-06-20, 03:48

I have skimmed through the lesser keys of solomon. it is a good read and very complicated. Who was it that gave Solomon the ring? Wasn't it a good, light or Godly being, if not God himself that gave Solomon the wisdom to invoke and I read somewhere he use the genies, etc to build help build the Temple...so much information to research...
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Post by coraleec on 2011-06-20, 10:10

I suggest that you simply research and never attempt to summon one on your own and to find someone that is able and willing is nearly impossible.

Each demon has its own skill and ranking (based on level of importance). The higher the ranking the more strength it will take to control them. Demons are unpredictable and summoning them could be deadly. Demons are tricksters and they do nothing for free.

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Post by coraleec on 2011-06-20, 10:18

Also, the Goetia ceremonies isnt' the only way you can summon a demon. There are other ways one even involves saying a "prayer" to Satan asking his permmision to use those from his army. Its not as complicated but some warn that once you have caught Satan's attention, its hard to unbind his interest. This is where others say leads to problems of "harassment" from demons. They will forever have a passage to you.
Others say you can cut the interest by doing a closing ceremony afterwards but if the slightest thing is done wrong.....then well it doesn't work.

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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 11:52

So true!
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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 12:15

Tina--I do understand you are looking into the lighter side of this. I wish you well, that's an area I have had no experience with. Let us know how it goes.
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Post by tina71 on 2011-06-20, 12:22

Ceremonial magick is not only about demons and the goetia spirits, the Goetia is one catalogue of spirits, and one specific set of methods for evoking them, there is a lot more to it, and can be used for light and dark.
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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 13:02

coraleec wrote:Also, the Goetia ceremonies isnt' the only way you can summon a demon. There are other ways one even involves saying a "prayer" to Satan asking his permmision to use those from his army. Its not as complicated but some warn that once you have caught Satan's attention, its hard to unbind his interest. This is where others say leads to problems of "harassment" from demons. They will forever have a passage to you.
Others say you can cut the interest by doing a closing ceremony afterwards but if the slightest thing is done wrong.....then well it doesn't work.

On the summoning of demons this is very true. As I said I had someone ill advising me. I was so desperate that at first it did sound logical to fight the dark with dark power. I was in physical as well as emotional danger. The person who I thought I could trust didn't bother to tell me some very warnings and because I thought I could trust him I went blindly into this, for a very short time. Eventhough I could not do the ceremony right, because I would not tell Satan he was the best and I honored him and such I caught the attention, just like mentioned. It ended up that I gave all my spirits away because I didn't know if I had contiminated them, because I then bought two bound demons, sought out work from A Satanist and for a short time seemed to be drawn to very darker thinking. None of this aligns with my way of thinking. It's pretty surreal when I reflect on it.

It's still a little baffling to me to this day how I could have been so foolish, but I was majorly afraid. Unfortunately the person I thought was really going to help me ended up causing me much more damage. It took me months to feel like me again, cleanse my house properly and start to regroup. Those that remained full force into it grew darker and I do think oipened that forever passage. It's very unfortunate, because some were pretty nice before they followed this man's advice. I think of myself as a fairly strong person, firmly committed to my beliefs, but I think the demons and dark find ways of trapping people when they are devastated, desperate or frightened.
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Post by tina71 on 2011-06-20, 13:57

@maggie you were victim of a wicked individual and I understand your pain, like someone told me, what does not kill you, makes you stronger and i am sure you are a better and stronger person now.
I stated and keep my believe that ceremonial magic is not about satan and demons, it is the path the person chooses and the spirits you invoke. Before going into any spirits, you have to find your own connection with your holly guardian angel and it is the key!
I personally know someone who is a sick and evil individual who harms and manipulates others while going to church every Sunday preaching Christianity, she is not different to the satan workshipper or demon conjurer, harms others and it is in her soul, not spiritual practice.
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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 14:01

Yes, that's exactly how I feel. Oh boy, wonder if the same person you are talking about is from extended family? (jk) I know some just like that, though.
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Post by joanna on 2011-06-20, 14:05

tina71 wrote:... someone who is a sick and evil individual who harms and manipulates others while going to church every Sunday preaching Christianity, she is not different to the satan workshipper or demon conjurer, harms others and it is in her soul, not spiritual practice.

I can't agree more. It is the person's soul and spirit that is either light or dark, not the spiritual practice or religion they choose to follow. I also don't think God assigns dark guardian angels to us or that there is a right path that God judges upon, it is the free will of the individual which path to take. I'm still jetlag. I hope that makes sense.
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Post by NoOneMournstheWicked on 2011-06-20, 14:52

Maggie--That sound horrifying! It seems that you don't get goetic work done without paying some sort of price, be it mentally or physically.. I know I'm not going to mess around with this stuff. Makes sense that no serious practitioner would want to, either-especially if he's putting himself at risk for somebody else.

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Post by NoOneMournstheWicked on 2011-06-20, 14:54

Tina-thanks for the link. I'm going to check it out in a second. Goetia is a fascinating subject , even if I don't want to go there personally..

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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 15:13

Yes, it really was.
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Post by coraleec on 2011-06-20, 20:02

Tina71

That is true, its just spirits but its quite difficult to summon a spirit without a demon being involved.
Think of it this way, a living room is full of people in one house. If someone knocks on the door, everyone looks towards the door. If one persons name is called from the door, everyone still looks to the door just to be curious.
Once a demon is curious they literally become somewhat obsessed.
So using the Goetia spirits, you might as well just summon a demon because you will catch the attention of one.

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Post by coraleec on 2011-06-20, 20:07

Honestly, I suggest that everyone simple researches this subject out of curiosuoty but never attempts to summon.
Even if you do the ceremony and you make one mistake, you could summon something you had no intention of summoning.

Also, when you summon a demon THEY have the choice to accept what you offer as fair trade for their time or they can TAKE (not request) something else from you. Even when they decide to do your bidding they can twist your request so that something bad comes from it.

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Post by tina71 on 2011-06-20, 20:22

@coralec, thank you for the advise and concerns, even if i completely disagree with your idea, everything in ceremonial magic does not have to do with demons that will harm you and haunt you down.

For the last time, ceremonial magic is not all about satan and demons, it is the
path the person chooses and the spirits you invoke. Before going into
deeper invocations and evocations, you have to find your own connection with your holly
guardian angel and it is the key!

I think we are looking at different definitions here because you tell me that "its quite difficult to summon a spirit without a demon being involved", I do not agree with that definition, but will not get into philosophical arguments.

I will not try to convince you of my point of view any farther, please do not try to convince me of yours. thank you
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Post by tina71 on 2011-06-20, 20:25

and once again, i am not qualified to advise anyone what to do or not to do in its spiritual path or practices ..... it is a personal decision.
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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 20:27

Tina--If you read my post I think it was on the CH post please post ways you have found to connect to your own guardian spirit, thanks!!
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Post by tina71 on 2011-06-20, 21:06

@maggie, i did not overlook your post, i am not sure what to say because everyone is different and we all have different experiences
in the spiritual path. I am just trying and can not tell you i have found a system that will work for everyone.
This is my case: i have never been able to connect or sense the spirits others
have sold me, i have tried many ways and never went pass my
psychological needs, i used to think the vessels were empty or not strong enough.
I have many entities acquired from different sellers all over the world and still feel something is missing.
I recently spoke with yaya maria and she started taking to me about my ancestral spirits and how they could help me.
Then I went i created an ancestral altar and tried to pray to my ancestors to help me unravel the missing link.
There is when I started looking into ceremonial magic, it was something that i became attracted to as a tool to find the connection with my guardian angels.
I am still doing baby steps, mostly directed to connect with my spirits and see where they guide me (no demons here please do not lecture me).
I hope this makes sense, the rest is still to be said ....
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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 21:25

I hope you never thought I was lecturing. I am very excepting of others and what they feel is best for them. I never looked into the lighter side of Goetia Magic. I was just mislead to into seeking the dark and demons and it was horrible.

Some of your vessels may be empty, I have a few of those. Okay thanks, that's makes sense. I took care of a disabled aunt and have been told she is around me, but I have asked she look out even more for someone who is even more important to me than me, maybe that's what happened..maybe I won't ever know.

There for awhile I thought I was not going to be able to connect to these spirits, I hope u will learn to or find a method that is meaninful to you. Really I am not a conformist and don't expect others to be. I am however a caring person, so if I can warn someone of demons (and again the darker side of that was the only aspect of Goetia Magic I was advised to use), then I will. My warning only applies to demonolgy and going to the dark side for help. There seems to be a price to pay.
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Post by tina71 on 2011-06-20, 21:54

I am sure I have many empty vessels and at times i have even thought they were all empty, but I am holding myself from trying anything with them for now.

Do not take me wrong when I wrote the "no lecture", I appreciate your wisdom and the experiences you have shared with us, i cab relate to your experience and we all can learn from it.

What I have leaned about ancestral, goes farther than contacting our death family members or spirits of the dead, it is more about connecting to the spirits who guided and protected them. Still a long way to go.
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Post by coraleec on 2011-06-20, 22:34

@Tina71

I know not all ceremonial magic does but those involving the Goetia does.

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Post by coraleec on 2011-06-20, 22:39

And for everyone on this thread, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

I'm just giving my honest opinion along with what I know involving the subject.
Please don't think I'm lecturing, that is not what I am trying to do. I'm just simply replying to posts that I have an opinion about.

Yet, the only thing that I do say is something I strongly beleive in - Do NOT attempt any form of summoning even with light spirits unless you know exactly what you intend to do and how to do it. Spirits can become offended if they feel they are being toyed with - their is a such thing as light spirits but even they too have limits of tolerance.
Also, make sure when doing the summoning you know everything, a simple mistake in one summoning can lead to summoning something else.
All in all, I'm just saying to PLEASE be careful.

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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-20, 23:32

The bound spirits that you summon can not cause problems. I have called on passed on Saint's and the Orishas for their help with no problem at all, but I haven't summoned other spirits, other than the above mentioned. I know ppl who have had problems that are hard to get rid of using spirit boards (Ouija boards). I stay away from those, too. There are vaious videos out of demon problems, hauntings and what not using spirit boards, but again to each their own.

Tina--your altar sounds interesting. What practice speaks of contacting a relative's spirit verses them? Every once in awhile I light a candle for my relatives and just speak to them, not a link to them. There are so many theories, I guess the main thing is to find out what works for each of us and realize there is not just one right way.
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Post by joanna on 2011-06-21, 01:15

ouijas are frighteningly dangerous.
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Post by Maggie on 2011-06-22, 23:12

Agree!
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Post by divineone on 2011-10-17, 19:10

This is a very deep topic.
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Post by Maggie on 2011-10-17, 20:11

Yes and a very unpleasant and foolish reminder for me. It just goes to show when it comes to spells or working with different spirits we all need to do our personal homework to see if they come with a backlash. Most don't at all, especially to this degree.
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